Van Gogh

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Posts by Van Gogh

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  113

  if an atheist does something good...

  by DannyBloem in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

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  if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

  what's your thoughs on this?

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  Van Gogh

  Tetra:
  "they could stop worrying about the so-called difference between these abstractions that we call "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong"."
  The whole point is that they just do worry - whether consciously or unconsciously - and it matters to them (us) all that when they (we) do not (do justice), the shit hits the fan...
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  19

  Who are you looking for?

  by Effervescent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you find yourself scanning the posts of new ones here hoping in the back of your mind that it's a friend or relative who has finally "seen the light"?.

  there are several people i am always watching for.... my best friend from high school, the only friend i was allowed to have since she was the only girl my age in the kh.

  and my brothers... extremely bright and intelligent guys, but very wrapped up in gaining my fathers and the congregations approval.

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  Van Gogh

  Many Dutch (or continental) dubs just aren't proficient enough in the English language or idiom to have access to most "apostate" material - whether in print or on-line. So no, I'm afraid I for one will not encounter many.
  Interestingly, the E-watchman site for some reason is fully translated and available in Dutch. Its Dutch discussion board, "Paradise Cafe", has been detached from it though, but still mainly caters for the kind of Christian exdubs that are halfway stuck in JW interpretation and eschatology.
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  113

  if an atheist does something good...

  by DannyBloem in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  .

  if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

  what's your thoughs on this?

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  Van Gogh

  I agree Dan.
  It seems to me that if you are genuinly not blindly hiding behind a God - or anybody else's opinion for that matter - as a justification for your morals, your motives could be the purer for it, based as they will be on sound autonomous reasoning. The latter could of course be even better evidence of a divine legislator. But morals never solely arise from within, and are always based on outside influences.
  
  "Survival of the fittest" in the end will not be considered a valid source for generally accepted morals. The concept of justice is a hallmark of human consciousness and alien to the animal world, though people have been known not to be able to even fully live up to standards set by animals.
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  7

  Are children of Jw parents spared at armageddon?

  by headmath in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  will unbaptized children of baptized jw parents be destroyed at armaggedon?.

  will baptized children of baptized catholic parents be destroyed at armaggedon?.

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  Van Gogh

  "Will unbaptized children of baptized JW parents be destroyed at armaggedon?"

  No, under sixteens are safe.My dad didn't take any chances though - he got me dunked at twelve in '73 just to be sure. Best thing is to start making arrangements at fourteen though and plan things in line with the assembly dates. There is a transitory arrangement for children of unbaptized parents. They will not be destroyed as long as they have not finished studying two publications (brochures included), but need to get baptized immediately afterwards even if under sixteen.
  

  "Will baptized children of baptized Catholic parents be destroyed at armaggedon?"

  Catholics do not take any chances, as they baptize their babies. Unfortunately, most Catholics are largely ignorant of the fact that even full immersion of a newly born will not provide any protection whatever.
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  44

  Nat's gift to Mouthy

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  gus_gus, mouthy's daughter and my aunt, asked me to post this for mouthy and nathan.

  grace i don't know how you are doing this but every picture i see of you makes you look younger and younger.

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  Van Gogh

  Mouthy,
  
  Great to see you looking in good spirits and a lot younger than I thought. I will miss your pertinent, upbeat posts.
  
  VG
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  48

  Are you happier out of the org?

  by dobbie in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi everyone i was just wondering if those of you that have left the org for whatever reason, have found your'e much happier than when you were in it?probably a daft question but i tried to talk to a friend about how i was feeling about a few things and why i don't go to meetings and she said would i really be any happier out than in?it just got me thinking about why i joined in the first place, because i was lonely and down, although i still am several years later it seems!have you found life better on the outside?did you feel a sense of freedom or was it really hard to adjust?when i try to explain what i find hard in the religion they can always say something back that then makes me think i was wrong in the first place and it is the truth after all - aagh!

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  Van Gogh

  Happy? My sentiments are a bit like those of cyberdine (on the Matrix)

  and as Lilly stated:

  "You know its kind of like being in a coma for a long time, for me 12 years, and suddenly awakening and realizing your life stood still for those years while everyone around you kept on living. You have to almost make up for lost time. This may mean you have to make decisions about family, employment, education and religion all over again."

  I was in a coma for way too long.That realization does not make me happy at all.

  But I learnt the same lesson as Sherri about humanity - very humbling it is...
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  52

  What has this board given to you?

  by Crumpet in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having cooled down a bit in the garden i got to thinking about what this board has given me and wondered what anyone else feels they have gained from it.. for me its been invaluable and even life changing:.

  1) freedom from the brainwashing - when i came here i had already read ray franz's books and still believed it jws had the truth - hat i was basically worthless and that i would die at armageddon.

  the reasoned conversations and help of the posters from all over the world has enabled me to have freedom of thought - something i didnt even know i didnt have until i spent time here.. 2) friends who empathise and know from an experience what i have been through in a way outsiders can never possiby understand.. 3) entertainment - unbelievable laughs and moments of humour that have cheered me up so many times.. 4) association - via the aposta bbqs and telephone chats i can now have so i don't feel so isolated and to some extent alleviates the awful pain of separation from my loved family.. 5) information - from this board and posters here i have found out things that were my right to know but would never have learnt otherwise - my sisters marriage, my aunts tragic death.. 6) reunions - i have now met at least one person who knows me from my childhood and has grown into a man of such kindness and patience that i would have missed out on completely had he not been here and been kind enough to hold my hand - even when i've been an irritating totured little idiot!.

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  Van Gogh

  Daystar wrote: "A larger family."
  A knowlegable and comforting one, including your exuberance Crumpet.
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  47

  Has being a Jehova's witness totally shattered your faith?

  by Silvia Plath in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just because the watchtower society is wrong doesn't mean that there is no god, nor does it mean there is a god.

  it would interesting to now how former members have adjusted thier cosmology, or whether they are now atheists and why.

  i personally see religion as a more personal matter, rather than belonging to an organization.

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  Van Gogh

  I'm afraid it has... It has been a rude awakening.

  I could never have imagined doubting God.

  Seeing for instance how the majority of posters on this forum seem to have lost faith so fast has contributed a lot to demolish any simple confidence in a reconciliation of humanity with any creator.

  This could be a good thing. It forced me to think for myself - whether I liked it or not. It made me realize how lazy I had been in any attempt to connect to my creator. How self-centered and conditional the Big Brother Desert Island paradise prize game show really is: Eternal material bliss in my lifetime only will do for serving my maker. For those left out in the cold, would He have any reason or obligation to suddenly make Himself known?

  The purpose of human suffering and dying children is inexplicable. But so is the beauty in people and the spirit of a happy child.

  I am left with only realizing that the core message of Christianity is what life really is all about: selfless love. Rationally, that is to say. I do not see how I could or should ever discard that simple truth. Even without any further enlightenment or guarantee of eternal consciousness. I'll have to make do.

  VG
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  73

  Goodbye all

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes i am quitting the forum ,,, i cant keep up with you all.

  i cant remember whos who, so very happy that we have many many new ones,,,, .

  let me tell you i love you all ...i have been so respected by you all & shown much unconditional love..... i know many have my home e-mail..... so if any want to - they know what to do.. i have been on here a long time.... gus,gus ( my wonderful daughter still posts on occasions.

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  Van Gogh

  (((Grace)))

  You graced us with your spirit. I hope this will not leave.

  VG
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  27

  another life gone

  by darth frosty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this past thurs a young brother ended his life.

  in writing he stated that he could not live up to the demands placed on him.

  i am quite sure that all the local witnesses will hear about this and think what they are programed to think: we need the new system.

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  Van Gogh

  Desert Rat,
  "Maybe it is a sign of progress in my 'recovery' from the Org that I am now crying & feeling for someone I never had the privilege to meet"
  In my experience: yes
  VG